When one spends enough time reading the various blogs in the manosphere there is a trend that is seen regarding manipulative women. The word manipulative is almost always used in a very negative light. I had a conversation at Alpha Game a few days ago that was going nowhere for this very reason. He was using the word to mean a very negative thing and I was not. Because of this one word we were not understanding one another. Finally, I looked the word up, as I knew the definition of this word is why we were at an impasse. From the Oxford Dictionary, the definition of the word manipulate:
1 handle or control (a tool, mechanism, information, etc.) in a skilful manner
2 control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly or unscrupulously.
~ alter or present (data) so as to mislead.
During the conversation, I was using the second definition, but using it in terms of cleverly. Not unscrupulously. Not too long ago, this was referred to as feminine wiles. But even these have a negative connotation to them. From the Free Online Dictionary, wile (noun):
1. A stratagem or trick intended to deceive or ensnare.
2. A disarming or seductive manner, device, or procedure.
3. Trickery; cunning
Verb
1. To influence or lead by means of wiles; entice.
2. To pass (time) agreeably
What I was talking about during our conversation was a combination of definition 2 of the noun and definition 1 of the verb. Feminine wiles, while they can certainly be used to negative and devious ends, are nothing more than a tool. In essence, they are Girl Game. Just like Game, they are going to be used to the end goal of the user, for either good or bad, but in and of themselves, they are not a bad thing. Feminine wiles are a woman’s power. They are what she covertly uses to influence her man, or any man, to get what she wants. It is what any particular woman might want that a man has to be careful of. If her end game is to increase her ability to love, the her manipulation or influence of her man is a very good thing. If her end game is a large house with granite counter tops, then one wants to be very wary of any feminine wiles she might employ.
I use feminine wiles often to produce the effect I desire (my husband knows darn well what I’m doing, too. This is a good thing.) I manipulate his senses with baked cookies. I entice him to more sleep with pretty nightgowns (haha!) If he really needs the sleep, I employ his beautiful daughters to give me ideas on how to help Daddy get more sleep so he’s not too tired during the day (right in front of him, of course). I don’t do this harshly or in any way nagging. It’s done as a matter of fact and he appreciates what I am trying to do for him. I know darn well that a “Come to bed” will fall on deaf ears, but a “Why is Daddy so tired?” will soften him to go to bed a bit earlier that evening. It’s also a very gentle way for me to tell him something he really does not want to hear (Maritus hates to sleep as it’s a waste of precious time that he could use to read or do something else he loves).
Feminine wiles must be applied skillfully and carefully. One must learn the intricacies of one’s husband before trying different things as, most of the time the effort will be appreciated, sometimes it will not. Sometimes, a wife must just stand back and let what will happen, happen and then try something different on another day. Many times, wiles must simply be applied playfully as what you wish to disarm is simply the day and your goal is to tweeze out a smile or a laugh. Apply them aptly and both you and your husband will be happier for it.
On the Rock 
Nice post on describing good manipulation vs bad manipulation. A lot of it is really knowing what your partner responds well to which can take a lot of time and patience.
Yup. It’s a feature not a bug. Women have very little direct power. To negatively associate their use of indirect, submissive, subversive power is hypocritical when the ‘Sphere is fighting against the negative associations of masculinity found in our culture right now.
Its not to say they should be lauded either. Just that they simply are.
Thank you, Ashley and welcome.
Yes. Masculinity and femininity are so deeply buried right now in their respective sex that they are actually lauded in the wrong sex(!) and dismissed as unscrupulous in the correct sex. It would be comical if it weren’t so maddening and sad.
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We love to get “wiled” just like women love to get gamed.
Samuel Johnson: “Nature has given women so much power that the law has very wisely given them little.” There is profound truth in that statement, which true students of power have recognized since Eve in The Garden. In the feminists’ pursuit of gaining the masculine brand of power, they frittered away their own. In a word, the difference is direct power versus indirect power.
I think of Julia Maesa and Julia Mamaea (Mamaea Mia!), the mothers of young Roman emperors in A.D. early third century, who ruled indirectly through their sons with great efficiency. Women are designed to be passive and attractive. They inspire men to greatness or profound Lady Macbethian evil. “Unsex me here….” Women simply cannot compete directly, just as in many ways, men are no match for the subversive tricks that mothers provide to daughters with their breast milk.
And when this is happening? The conspiratorial glee with which women manipulate us? We see it in dancing in your eyes. And we love it. We counterattack with all our unrefined, crude directness, but it doesn’t work! The feminine aikido, through gentleness, redirects our plodding attempts to defend ourselves through aggression, which often so sweetly finds reconciliation in physical domination/submission, as if she says, “You can have my body, but I will have my way.” We are frustrated and thrilled by it, powerless against it. It is woman at her essence. It is a quality as attractive as any physical trait she may or may not have (don’t tell the PUAs this).
Incidentally, this indirect brand of passive power also happened to conquer the world against all the best efforts of pagan, manly chest-thumping. It’s called Christianity (cf. “the whole armor of God” in Eph 6:11). So, do men want real power or just the appearance of power to satisfy their ego? Because the power behind the throne — “behind every great man is a great woman” — is the eternal power. The smartest women have always manipulated this counterproductive and vitiating egomania of men to their own ends. And we love it when you do.
Alternative headline for post: Girls Gone Wiled.
Matt
P.S. No comments on the baking, except to say, Cher was right.
Heheh, this reminds me of the movie Snow White, the original Disney movie. Do you remember how Grumpy was the only one who was skeptical about Snow White and warned all the other dwarfs how she will “use her wicked wiles” on them because she is a woman. He’s like the MRA dwarf.
Snow White is often criticized for being a weak, damsel-in-distress heroine by those who’d rather little girls were into Mulan (whom I like for other reasons), but she is far from powerless. Just watch how she got those dwarfs on her side and pretty much took over their house, to her and their advantage. She was kinda naive to accept apples from strangers, but other than that she’s one of my fav. Disney heroines.
Matt,
And when this is happening? The conspiratorial glee with which women manipulate us? We see it in dancing in your eyes. And we love it. We counterattack with all our unrefined, crude directness, but it doesn’t work!
I gotta say, this is so much fun, doing this to a man. The look on his face when he figures out that I am playing is priceless. After all these years I can still elicit that look from Maritus and I can do it fairly often. And this:
The look on your faces (men’s) that says, “what exactly just happened and did she do that on purpose?” is wonderful. It’s flirting at it’s best.
Girls Gone Wiled.
I love it!
Emma,
Snow White is the Queen of innocent wiles.
Stingray,
This is brilliant!
I love this post because it is so ingrained in some people’s minds that ‘feminine wiles’ are always negative, as you stated in the post.
Which is not true of course.
The wiser women among us (like you) know that to use this feminine power comes with great responsibility. It should NEVER be used to hurt a man.
But as some men here have confirmed, when it is being used in a positive way, they love it, and willingly acquiesce to whatever she wants.
This is how it should be 🙂
Keep ’em coming, Stingray…
It is wonderful to learn from the good women round the ‘sphere…
Thanks, Spacetraveller. I really appreciate that.
And remember . . . with great power, comes great responsibility. 😉
“I love this post because it is so ingrained in some people’s minds that ‘feminine wiles’ are always negative, as you stated in the post.”
Besides on the ‘Sphere, where are they portrayed negatively? Overwhelmingly they’re portrayed in a positive light in the mainstream media.
[edit]
I originally thought that, but then realized after writing out the rest of what’s below that they are portrayed negatively, just as naive instead of controlling. I think mainstream media has forgotten what feminine wiles looks like – instead of using feminine wiles as I think they falsely believe they are, they’re having characters switch between feminine and masculine behaviors. Rest of comment unedited
Far more often the women that are portrayed as either good or evil are actually portraying women using masculine traits. Beating men at their own game. Or beating another woman at a man’s game. Examples can be seen in any cop show, fantasy show/book with a heroine, wives throughout any series, or a political show.
Three examples in modern TV:
Game of Thrones: In the whole series, there’s one, ONE, feminine character. Sansa Stark. She is easily portrayed as the most victimized, naive, innocent person you could ever imagine, while also being an entitled noble. The other major female victim is Brienne, who is portrayed as a victim of sexual double standards – she’s an ugly noble woman who doesn’t have a feminine bone in her body and can beat any man with a sword. Such a POOR VICTIM of sexual standards that she can’t find love nor acceptance in the area she tried to excel at and is considered a freak when she beats every man at hand to hand combat. The ‘male victim’ of the show is an emasculated noble who’s afraid of everything, kicked out by his father so his younger, more masculine brother will inherit, and then of course has his heroic conquering of fear.
The main female protagonist is a shunned princess who got kicked off the throne, sold into a marriage against her will by her own brother in trade for an army. Submits to the husband, but then becomes a masculine ruler. Every time she shows feminine weakness it leads to disastrous results. The more male she is the better she rules and conquers.
All the male characters are amazing though. Truly epic portrayals of different forms of masculinity, moral codes, and adapting to the world as it is rather than as you wish it was.
Boss – a political drama set in Chicago. Great show; I love watching because of the ruthless leadership of the main character. Majority of the other male characters are also extremely masculine and trying to take him down. All of the women in it are hyper masculine and trying to take him down. His daughter is a somewhat feminine character. She usually is taking what she wants. When she is portrayed to naively convert back to a more feminine frame, she’s victimized by either her mother or father. The only other feminine character is an African American woman who wants to actually serve the community, naively believes it can happen, and is let down when the political realities of budgets, elections, and political deals have it fall through.
Breaking Bad – I stopped watching this, but it has some really good examples of Alpha/Beta mixes. His wife though…. man, she’s a piece of work. Seen as a victim at some points when she’s using those feminine wiles, the writers have her change over to very masculine behaviors to try and make it look like those previous feminine behaviors make her a controlling bitch. She is, but it isn’t through feminine wiles. It’s through masculine power plays against her husband. The reason I stopped watching is because on the third of fourth season the writers had every character get to a point where they were being annoying little children all playing selfish games at the same time, where before they’d each gone back and forth like normal humans. I wanted to punch every one of them though, and thus didn’t want to watch any of them.
So yeah. Feminine wiles isn’t being bashed, though maybe the writers think it is. Really they’re using women to bash masculine traits; it’s simply that our masculinized women in society display them more often than men do. So its easier to attack the masculine through women rather than through men; because in men those traits would be harder not to be attractive.
actually, in that little edit blurb I should have said simply:
“Femininity’s portrayal is complex. This is because the media are using masculinized women to both attack masculine behavior (sometimes with the INTENTION of actually attacking feminine wiles, but not knowing what those wiles really look like), while also portraying feminine behavior as naive.”
Oh well. Can’t get everything right the first time
Ultimate girl gone wiled: Anne Boleyn. This is, of course, a negative but powerful example. I’m inclined to agree that the positive use of wiles has declined resulting in a dearth of plain, old fun. While I agree it is much better to gain/inspire by the use of the feminine arts, I’ve always found that men enjoy being teased by a feminine woman momentarily masquerading in a masculine role. For example, once in several blue moons saying something in a teasing, bossy way.
Leap,
Feminine wiles are not only portrayed as naive, but as very weak. It is difficult to find strength in such a passive form when the overt masculine form is so celebrated by women today. Yes, a hyper-masculine woman might be used to deride men, but done smoothly and it is used to encourage women to do the same.
Kate,
I find the same. But the teasing is key. As it’s known you are teasing, it is a feminine wile. Teasing and flirting are very strong wiles and should never be underestimated.
Well said, Stingray. So, so true.
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I hate women who knowingly use ‘feminine wiles’ to get your guy off of you. Because it usually works.
And a very beautiful girl from our H.S. graduating class had her life totally destroyed by a manipulative “wiley” girl who was very jealous of her. I hate that ‘wiley’ coward now.
I would be quite afraid to use “wiles” on my husband. I have been taught that manipulation is evil, period. Whenever I wanted anything growing up, that was manipulation and meant punishment. If I want anything from my husband, that’s manipulation and I get ignored. What’s your secret? You seem to get a lot of romance and fun out of marriage. I don’t. I can’t wait for him to get to work in the morning because I’m so stressed out worrying about whether or not I’ve done a good enough job with lunch, with this, with that, etc. I don’t dare relax or even have any fun, and I hate it.
What’s the secret? What are you supposed to do? Because, quite frankly, I don’t like being married one bit and am focusing strictly on doing my duty as I’m supposed to do. Maybe it’s too late for me, but maybe you can at least give me some ideas so my daughters can have happy, fun marriages, at least once in a while (we all know it’s not fun all the time, that’s not my point).
Anonymous,
I am going to try to answer your question in a post. I’m going to try to get it up today but it might take a couple of days, in reality.
I would ask that, if you plan to comment, that you would pick a name. You will remain just as anonymous as you are now. Even if it’s just a random letter it will be easier to have a conversation. “Anonymous” comments make discussion unnecessarily difficult.
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Crazy Irishman just described your blog as “feminist.” I was drinking coffee at the time, which was unfortunate for my monitor.
I saw that john. I had nearly the same reaction. Hurt my feelings a little bit. 😉
“And when this is happening? The conspiratorial glee with which women manipulate us? We see it in dancing in your eyes. And we love it. We counterattack with all our unrefined, crude directness, but it doesn’t work! The feminine aikido, through gentleness, redirects our plodding attempts to defend ourselves through aggression, which often so sweetly finds reconciliation in physical domination/submission, as if she says, “You can have my body, but I will have my way.” We are frustrated and thrilled by it, powerless against it. It is woman at her essence. It is a quality as attractive as any physical trait she may or may not have.”
“I gotta say, this is so much fun, doing this to a man. The look on his face when he figures out that I am playing is priceless. After all these years I can still elicit that look from Maritus and I can do it fairly often. And this:
“and the woman is usually cunning enough to leave him in doubt. ”
The look on your faces (men’s) that says, “what exactly just happened and did she do that on purpose?” is wonderful. It’s flirting at it’s best.”
I promised myself I’d stop bothering you, but had to come back and re-read this post; I do from time to time, oddly enough I have it bookmarked; it makes me a tad envious sometimes, but not in a necessarily bad way, just wistful. For I have absolutely no idea what this is like, although I have heard about it and see some occasional fleeting evidence that it exists, but I have also learned that it is not good for me to read things like this.
STMA,
I’m not quite sure how to respond here. Only to say you are not bothering me. I want to show you that even though you don’t have this, you can still be happy. Only, I don’t really know how to do that. Happiness is a decision. One that you can make independent of those around you. I don’t pretend that it will be easy and it won’t look like what you quoted above, but you can have happiness. The beautiful thing is, that sometimes, when we change ourselves, the people around us respond to that. It can become infectious.
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I can understand the source of confusion regarding terminology and definitions. The term “feminine wiles” has come to be somewhat outdated, and has gained a bad rap for some unknown reason. And the word “manipulate” tends to carry a negative connotation when used as a sociological descriptor. There is a new word, “honeycraft”, which has recently been introduced to refer to the more positive and inspiring aspects of feminine power and control, and which leaves behind those boring, tawdry, outdated impressions.
I have covered many aspects of female power in my own posts, which are listed here…
https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/category/power/female-power/
By the way, your blog is great reading!
Posts like this are frightening. I’d rather a woman have no “female wiles” and just be honest instead of try to manipulate me. This is just disgusting to me. I am nobody’s tool, nobody’s slave.
Loved it! Thank you! Very helpful to be reminded of my feminine gifts. I must use them for good and not evil! 🙂